Chinese Tutor - Baijiu Sourcing in London -

> Chinese Culture > Food
Baijiu Sourcing in London
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laohu -

Can anyone help out in giving tips on where to get hold of some Baijiu in London. It's not that i
really like the stuff, but i seem to have had really great nights ever time i've drunk it, I also
want to share that first experience of it with my friends at home!
The taste didn't become nice, but it certainly got less bad during my last trip to China. As with
a lot of things I meant to get before going home, I forgot to get a couple of sports bottles of
Baijiu...

If anyone knows of somewhere in London where it can be obtained, I'd be thankful indeed. Had a
search in chinatown the other day, but no luck. My friend from HongKong has never heard of it so
can give me tips about which supermarket to go to.

Or if any one has any great Baijiu thoughts or stories to share, I'm sure I'll get a kick out of
them.

Those in china now have a Baijiu for me tonight! (or just send me some )



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liuzhou -

I've bought Bajiu in London's Chimatown supermarkets many times. Have a closer look!

There are also a couple of off-licences on Old Compton Street in Soho which may have.










adrianlondon -

As liuzhou says. Chinatown and Soho are neighbours so you may be able to get it in the big off
licence on Old Compton Street (the one with loads of bottles of whiskey in the window).

You can definitely get it from the liquor counters in the larger Chinese supermarkets in
Chinatown. I don't think it's with the sake and rice wine (which are on the display shelves) but
from the alcohol counter.












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Chinese Mandarin - ZDT: 070RC2 - Save Failed -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: 070RC2 - Save Failed
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drahnier -

frustrating the see this after having just added some 40+ new items to a category and then trying
to save it:



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bogleg -

In any situation where something like this happens, please send me the log files. I can't do
anything without them. It should be easy now from the RC2 build going forward. Just go to Help >
Report Bug and it will generate a zip file that you can send to me with all the information I need.

Thanks

Chris












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Learn mandarin - Name given to me by a Taiwanese lady-a bit strange -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Name given to me by a Taiwanese lady-a bit strange
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Dachrei -

So I lived in Taiwan from the ages of 2-7 years old. I was given a Chinese name by a close friend
of the family that is Taiwanese. 包柏凱 Bao Bo Kai. I went to China this summer after 13 years
of not really having contact with enough chinese speaking people to tell them my name, and when I
got there first my teacher said my name was "interesting", then a girl laughed when I said my
name, then another said it didn't flow very well, then another asked if I picked it myself, which
I now assume is because it's definitely not a standard Chinese name.

Since I'm no longer in contact with the lady that gave me my name, I'm a little bit puzzled as to
whether or not it is a good name. I did hear from two people that thought there was nothing wrong
with it. I suffered a bit of a blow to my ego after spending my entire life thinking that it was a
good chinese name, since a Taiwanese lady picked it, and then having these experiences.

I do know the reason, relayed to me through my mom, as to why the lady chose the name. The Bao was
chosen since it's close to my last name. The Bo part was chosen kind of as a way to conjure up the
image of a tall, strong, person. The Kai part is originally a different character meaning warrior
but no one else I've met has ever seen it before so now I'm using 凱 to get the same sound. Keep
in mind that the lady that gave me my name graduated top of her class in ancient Chinese studies
so I am giving her the benefit of the doubt as to whether or not that character exists.

The only explanation I can think of is that maybe my name sounds better in Taiwanese since the
lady spoke Taiwanese. But I only know that the Bao part is the same sound. So if anyone knows
Taiwanese I would greatly appreciate it if you could let me know how it would be pronounced.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm a little bit distraught from this summer after finding out that a
name I held in high esteem my whole life may be a bad name after all.



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skylee -

Sorry I don't know how the name is pronounced in Minnanhua. But I think the name is ok. I'm not
sure why some people find it funny/interesting.

I am curious what the original character for Kai is. Could it be this one ->
http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-...ry=wholerecord










muyongshi -

Got my curiosity up...

bao isn't a typical 姓 though right? The rest sounds find but I've never heard bao as a xing
before.... confirmation anyone?










skylee -

包 is a common surname. Haven't you heard of 包拯 aka 包青天?

http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-...ry=wholerecord










muyongshi -

He he...brain fart....










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

bao isn't a typical 姓 though right? The rest sounds find but I've never heard bao as a xing
before.... confirmation anyone?

I was curious about this too and looked it up on a list of Chinese surnames ordered by frequency -
it was 186th on the list.










gato -



Quote:

包柏凱 Bao Bo Kai. I went to China this summer after 13 years of not really having contact with
enough chinese speaking people to tell them my name, and when I got there first my teacher said my
name was "interesting", then a girl laughed when I said my name, then another said it didn't flow
very well,

Boba means "breasts" in the Minnan dialect used in Taiwan. You might have heard of people
referring to "Pearl Milk Tea" as Boba tea. I don't know if that's why people find this name funny,
though.










Lu -

Boba tea? I thought they called it 'bubble tea'. Might have misunderstood though.

If the lady who gave you the name was well-versed in classical Chinese, she would have made sure
it sounds fine in Mandarin as well as in Taiwanese. I don't think that's the problem. The name
does look unusual to me, but not weird or funny.

柏 can also be pronounced bai, but I don't think that makes it sound better. Maybe you can ask
your teacher why it is 'interesting'.

Came across an article the other day by a man named [surname] Baibo, with some rather unusual
characters. At first I thought it read Bobo. Poor guy, must be mispronounced all the time.










gato -



Quote:

Boba tea? I thought they called it 'bubble tea'. Might have misunderstood though.

Yes, Boba as in boobies. See the connection?










muyongshi -

If I say "boba" fast it sounds like a slurred "bubble". Maybe that's where the term really came
from...












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Chinese Tutor - Any online tutorial on Henanese -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Any online tutorial on Henanese
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zozzen -

After arrived in Henan, it's surprised that many henanese refuse to speak Putonghua with me. Some
said it looked weird to speak Putonghua in their local environment, but when i insist that i can
only understand putonghua, some really find it hard to speak it, although both dialects share many
commonality.

Then it's a big frustration. Although i'm perfectly confident at my putonghua, i only understand
very limited conversation even if they speak very slowly. Not only the many intonations are
different (sound seems mostly the same with putonghua), the vocab is often very short that a
single word can mean a lot than putonghua.

Today, i tried to ask my friends in Henan to introduce me some teaching material, but none of them
have an idea on it. All of them also find it so hard to specify the difference between both
dialects.

Any idea about their difference? Any good learning material? Thanks in advance!



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wushijiao -

Hey Zozzen. I lived in Henan for a year, and my wife is from Henan, so I go back there about once
a year for Spring Festival.

Here's my take on it: generally speaking, most people from Henan can't speak Putonghua. They just
speak Henanhua (or, to be more accurate, Luoyanghua, Nanyanghua, Kaifenghua....etc). Part of the
reason is that, for reasons of economics, some people rarely ever travel beyond their city or
town. So, for a lifetime, all the people they come into contact with speak the same way that they
do.

Assuming they can speak Putonghua, in some social settings, it would be somewhat pretentious for
them to do so. For example, imagine that there are three friends from some village in Henan. One
of them is gets a great job in Beijing working for a multi-national comapnay. Later, he returns to
Henan, and speaks to his old friends in standard Putonghua, instead of his village's dialect. His
friends, most likely, would feel a bit like he "sold out", or that he now feels that he is better
than them.

I once worked at a college in Henan. The college's students were from all over the province. In
their first year as freshmen living in the dorms, many times in the first week or two the new
students had communication problems speaking to their roomates, because everyone spoke their
hometown's dialect. In fact, some students bought "standardize your Putonghua" books and tapes, so
that they wouldn't face discrimination when seeking work in big cities outside of the province.

Unfortunately, it does work the other way around: there are no practical learning materials for
learning Henanhua, especially aimed at the foreign learners market, as far as I know.

So, I don't think there is much that you can do. Try your best to listen to catch on to how they
speak. Make friends with people who can speak standard Putonghua. Sooner or later you'll get used
to it.

Also, if I were you, I'd mention at the start of a conversation that you can only understand
Putonghua, and ask if they can help you by speaking Putonghua, and speaking it slowly. If you find
that they can't speak Putonghua, then there is no need to push the issue, because I'm sure they
might feel a bit embarrassed by the fact that they can't speak Putonghua perfectly. Also, keep in
mind that some people are speaking in relatively standard Putonghua (perhaps for your sake), but
their Putonghua will naturally carry with it some of the aspects of Henanhua. This is the same as
any place in China. Shanghaiese people speak Putonghua in their style, Beijingers in their style,
Hong Kongers in their style...etc.










zozzen -

the explanation matches exactly what i see in the past week. some locals i met seemed proud to
tell me how they forgot their dialect when left for other provinces, and how they re-remembered
their dialect when they came back. putonghua still means the previlege to going outside and higher
education here. that is really surprising to me as both dialects are really similar.

after staying here for a week i still find it difficult to imitate thier tones, but i begin to
understand some henanese of some people (perhaps they are speaking henanese putonghua instead of
henanhua).












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Chinese School - Awesome Chinese PDAs? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Awesome Chinese PDAs?
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optical -

Hi everybody,

I read engadget a lot and they are always talking about these awesome devices that come out only
in China for not much money (comparitively) so I was wondering, is there a really great windows
mobile (or others, I'm open) PDA cell phone I can buy here and not anywhere else that supports
Chinese and English language operation? I'm totally new to buying devices here so any info would
help - especially a rough price range so I don't get the lao wai idiot tax added on.

Thanks!



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Chinese Class - Liaoning Normal University via HYCC -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Liaoning Normal University via HYCC
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Jamoldo -

Here's my detailed review of my experience at Liaoning Normal University and Mr. Toga's company
HYCC.

I got into Dalian's airport where I was greeted by a local student named Peter. He was really
polite and enthusiastic, telling me about himself and Dalian while offerering me some fresh fruit
and water. Peter got me settled into my dorm at Liaoning Normal where I had booked the cheaper
single. But it looks like the admin at the dorm messed something up and so I got a double (but
with no roommate since there were no singles left). About a day later, thanks to a lot of
wrangling by HYCC's Mr. Wang and Adam, I was given the more expensive single for the price of the
cheaper single (HYCC covered the difference).

Peter then took myself and another American client (Koreth) around Dalian, taking us to the big
squares, helping us by a public transport card, familiarizing us with Dalian's bus lines etc. In
addition he gave us a map to use came in quite handy.

A few days later Adam took us out for a bite and drinks (certainly not the last time he would do
so), and gave us some more tips about living in Dalian while introducing us to his friends. It was
a great and easy way to meet new people (Chinese and foreign) who were living in Dalian.

On to the university. I have to say I wasn't the happiest with the school. There were three levels
(usually there are something like 9, but since it was summer there were obviously less students).
I was placed in intermediate, which started with something like 27 students. The university
decided that this was simply too much (right on) and gave us an impossible placement test. Somehow
I placed into the faster paced class, which quite honestly I found to be way too easy (having
already studied a year at BNU). The advantage was that they used different books from BNU so I
learned a fair number of new characters and some new grammar but that most of the stuff was
review. Then I looked into the advanced level class and skimmed a book. I could read most of it
but the pace looked simply too fast, something that would have required at least 4-6 hours of
study a day, I would say. Not something I wanted to do in the summer at Dalian (this ended up
being a good move).

There were three classes, Reading comprehension, Speaking and reading/writing. I found Reading
comprehension to be worthless, Speaking had a great book, but we pretty much just read and didn't
speak (though I'd say the teacher was effective somehow), while reading and writing, well it just
wasn't good.

Dorms. Another major minus point. I was in a room that was 70 RMB a night. It was a single room
with a full bed, two pillows, tv, dresser, desk, chair, table, bathroom etc. The TV also had BBC
and CNN World (something I discovered later on). The bed can only be described as a box spring
with a thin mat over it. The pillows were literally bags of rice. The maids were supposed to clean
once a week and they cleaned my bathroom once the whole time. Oh and hot water? We had it for six
hours a day. Now I wouldn't moan about all of this if the price of housing was cheap (40 RMB or
less). Considering I stayed in a spotless double that was just as large (with bathroom with 24 hr
hot water), better lit, with comfortable beds and pillows and had daily maid service at BNU for 65
RMB a night, I simply found that the cost of the dorm was unjustified for what I got. Or maybe BNU
just spoiled me (though I was in Xinsong, a mid priced dorm).

I didn't have internet, but cafes are everywhere (one next to the bar/restaurant "START", as well
as the more upscale "Aladin" which is near Malan Square). A tip, don't buy a frequent user card
because you have to give out your passport number and then a bunch of websites will be magically
blocked when you try to access them (like my bank's web page).

There were other native Chinese students I befriended my first week there but since it was summer,
they decided to be normal students and go home. But I have to admit though that the classmates and
friends I had did not speak a lick of English. This is what made the program totally worth every
penny. I made some great non-English speaking friends who I met at the university with whom I hung
out with everyday. So my spoken Chinese improved incredibly.

The neighborhood. Absolutely fantastic. It's a very "Chinese" area in every sense of the word. The
shops, noises, smells etc. Old people play mah-johngg (sp) and cards on a daily basis and are more
than happy if you take an interest in what they are doing. They're engaging and will invite you to
sit down with them and watch. My friends and I also found a restaurant with good food and a great
owner and his wife who were friendly and would always speak with us, in addition to teaching us
Mah-johngg (sp) as well as the hilarious chuan'r guys who spoke worse Mandarin than we did. The
pace of life is slow and there is a seemingly daily routine to it that one not only gets used to
but cherishes.

In short: HYCC is awesome. They're friendly and help with everything. Use them. Adam and Mr. Wang
were apologetic in not meeting me personally at the airport, but they had Peter who was extremely
friendly, enthusiastic and helpful.

Liaoning Normal University: It was summer (which means relaxed classes, not many students and less
selection of courses), not many English speakers which was a huge plus. I was not happy at all
with the dorms, given their cost and would recommend anyone to get a flat or alternate
accomodation for a similar price.

If anyone has any questions about Dalian, HYCC or Lianoning Normal, I'd be more than happy to
answer them.



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mrtoga -

Yup, dorms are poor value at most univs, and not just in Dalian. However if you are only here on a
short summer course there are few alternatives. Maybe a guest house, but that would be further
from the campus and 70RMB does not stretch to a hotel.

As for classes in the summer, most universities struggle for a critical mass of students that
allows them to cater for all levels. This is especially a problem in the winter courses actually.
I think the way you did it was great - get out there, enjoy the summer and talk to everyone in
Chinese while using the classes for building up your knowledge bank of characters and sentence
patterns.

Enjoy the Autumn back in BJ, and come back to see us sometime!












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Chinese Tutor - Question about Confucius -

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
Question about Confucius
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Heracles -

I'm working in a program about the famous person in China.
I hope someone may help me with the following question.
Do you k now about Confucius?
If you do,what kind of man you think he was? And what would you want to know further about him?
If you don't, plesae tell me the famous peole you know and are interested in China.


The question doesn't aim at chines peolpe,if any chinese want to answer it, please let me know.



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zozzen -

How many people you plan to list in your program? As there're too many "famous people" in every
dynasty, you better take out some of them based on different categories.

Here's some of them I can think of:
Legendary:
- 黃帝
- 倉頡
- 神農

Emperor:
- Qin's first emperor
- 李世民
- 武則天
- 康熙
- 傅儀

Politicans:
- 李斯
- 張居正
- 毛澤東

Writer:
- 蘇軾
- 辛棄疾
- 李白
- 杜甫
- 曹雪芹

Scientist:
- 李時珍
- 沈恬

Philosopher
- Laozi
- Confucius
- 墨子
- 孫子
- 六祖慧能










Heracles -

Thank you for your information, may be i fail to make the question clear.
The question can be understand like this, if someone mentions China, which person will come
firstly into your mind?










gato -

Mao Zedong probably, or maybe Yao Ming nowadays.










zozzen -

bruce lee's scream 'wahhh chhaaaaa' came to my mind. he is widely known in america, eastern and
western europe, middle east and china. just a few years ago a sculpture was elected in romania to
celebrate his fame. 30 years after his death, his movies was still broadcasted on the television
to memorize his achievement in hong kong. no chinese at his time can achieve his undisputed fame.

another influential chinese must be jinyong, a writer of martial art novels that were read and
heard by almost all chinese. no novelist in chinese history has reached this enormous readership
as he did in the past decades.










madizi -

In Romania? Are you sure? As far as I know they erected Bruce Lee's statue in Mostar (Bosnia and
Herzegovina). Here: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_475139.htm










Heracles -

jinyong?
It really chocked me.Although he is very famous in China, mostly by his novel.
Western people really like him? And what kind of facts can impore it?










zozzen -

Thanks for the correction, madizi!












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Chinese Mandarin - Help translate two short phrases -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Help translate two short phrases
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inquirer -

Hello All,
Could you help me translate the following two phrases:

1. 如方便出发前通次电话. I understand that this is an invitation to call, but the
following characters confuse me: 前通次. The exact translation eludes me.

2. 我会记住在一起的夜晚. I will remember the night we spent together. My question is
whether the word 夜晚 and the phrase context suggest HOW the night was spent: whether it was an
intimate experience or just a party with friends.

Thanks in advance!



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rootfool -

如(果)/方便/出发前before depart/通/次/电话.
Please call me before you depart if it's convenient.


2.I think "an intimate experience " is more proper here.

hope it helps.










inquirer -

Thanks a lot!












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Learn Chinese online - CSC Scholarship Support Group - Page 17 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
CSC Scholarship Support Group
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Yi_Se_Lie_Ren -

Well, first of all, thanks for your answers. Sorry for forgetting all the background story-
I'm a B.A student in the East Asian Department in Tel Aviv University, Israel.
This is my last year of school, and so I applied for the CSC through my school. Usually, there are
4 scholarships that are annually given by the CSC to the top students of the Chinese language
class. This year I was lucky enough (or talented enough, whatever) to get the scholarship through
an extra quota the university was given (raising the number of scholarship receiving students to .
So we've all met the Chinese consulate's education representative and he gave us some information
such as:
1. We will get dorms for free (but he didn't say what kind of dorms)
2. We will get a monthly payment (but he didn't say how much, just that it's very little)
3. We may write BLCU or Fudan, but in most cases people don't get into the quota or admitted too
late, so there's no guarantee for studying in Beijing or Shanghai
4. The answers about where we study will be given to us only by mid-July, there was no information
he could tell us about admission.
5. The scholarship covers: books, dorms, admission, medical health care. It does not cover: Flight
(ouch, there go 1,200$, luckily the dollar is on a low )
6. Other than that, he told us how to fill the forms.

I've filled up everything and handed it all to the consulate, I've had to go to the HIV clinic to
do the HIV test and pay a small donation to them, but other than that, no problems.
about the contact in China- I've filled the address and phone numbers of the Israeli embassy in
China, that's what I've been told by the Chinese consulate to fill, I guess everyone can do that
too.
After having it all finished, I guess all there is to do is to cross fingers that all will go
smoothly and I will get in one of the places I asked for.
One thing, however, still remains unsolved- What are the dates? What is the academic schedule in
China? I know it's from September to July, but can you tell me the exact dates of the semesters?
Thanks a bunch, you've helped a lot and I hope next year I can help other people who will probably
have the same questions as I've had.



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extrapages -



Quote:

One thing, however, still remains unsolved- What are the dates? What is the academic schedule in
China? I know it's from September to July, but can you tell me the exact dates of the semesters?

the dates are different for every school. but its generally from september to june.

as for everything else, you can just read the very first post for how things are usually done with
other CSC awards.










kisha -

jamoldo,
i will... however it takes... even if i have to move to new zealand (where everything seems
easier)!


ipsi() and yueni, how very fortunate of you! i still wish we had a later deadline here in the
philippines as you have.

good luck doki doki!










Yi_Se_Lie_Ren -

extrapages-
thanks for all the info! I never thought I'll find it all in one place and written so clearly.
If you know something about the exact date school starts in Fudan, please tell me because Fudan's
website doesn't say anything. Chinese internet is (still) an unexplored territory for me....










zmblum -

Hi all,

After a quick browse through the forum, I did not find what I was looking for... maybe I missed it
or maybe it's not here and someone could help me out...

I want to confirm that the MOE received my application, or at least that it reached Washington DC
on it's way. Does anyone have a contact at the CSC in Beijing or at the DC Embassy whom I could
reach on this?

Also, I found the contact page on the China Embassy's education site but all the phone numbers I
tried went straight to voicemail. The website I used was
http://www.sino-education.org/english/contactus.htm.

This is yet another example of my super anal-retentiveness but I feel the need to confirm that
they have my app and I'm hesitant to bother the nice woman at the SF consulate anymore Thanks in
advance for any help!










extrapages -

zmblum,
i dont know if the csc people will get back to you...
but ill send you the contact of the dude in charge in dc.
and he'll probably be able to confirm. though im not sure.
tell me how it goes!










zmblum -

I emailed Extrapages contact in DC. He was nice in his response but not helpful at all. He told me
to call the San Francisco consulate even I am trying to confirm from an outside source that they
did what they were supposed to (send my app to the MOE in Beijing). O well... I'll try to email
the MOE and see what they can tell me.

Thanks for the contact info Extrapages.












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Learn mandarin - Had this done last week (doh). -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Had this done last week (doh).
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rdwadsw -

Hi, Can anyone please confirm that this tattoo actually means 'Elizabeth' if not does it mean
anything?



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xiaojiang216 -

The name Elizabeth is commonly translated into Chinese as 伊丽莎白 Yi1 li4 sha1 bai2 (Queen
Elizabeth's name is translated that way).

Your tatoo says 依利莎伯 Yi1 li4 sha1 bai3, which phonetically is identical except for the
last characters. I presume that this is just another way to write Elizabeth, provided that there
are several "versions" of names when translated phonetically into Chinese.

An interesting discovery: I found 依利莎伯 as a 港译 translation for Queen Elizabeth










skylee -



Quote:

I presume that this is just another way to write Elizabeth, provided that there are several
"versions" of names when translated phonetically into Chinese.

An interesting discovery: I found 依利莎伯 as a 港译 translation for Queen Elizabeth

I am glad that you have discovered it. [Next time I think I might single out all those
大陸譯法. hmmm ....]










madizi -

The last character (伯) is not bai3, but bo2. Yi1 li4 sha1 bo2.










skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by madizi

The last character (伯) is not bai3, but bo2.


There are more than one pronunciation for 伯 - bo2 and bai3 and ba4.

I've watched some Taiwan TV series where 伯伯 is pronounced "baibai".










madizi -

I know, but isn't it so that when transliterating foreign names, the first pronunciation is used
(as in this case, bo2)?










skylee -

Who decides which is the first pronunciation?

I guess you mean some pronunciations are more common than others, and thus should be adopted in
transliteration, right? I think there is not a standard, so it is really flexible. French director
Francois Truffaut is known as 杜魯福 in HK, 楚浮 in Taiwan, and 特呂弗 on the Mainland.
And they are all ok. So if I transliterate "Elizabeth" to 依利莎伯 and pronounce it yi1 li4
sha1 bai3, I think it is ok. (Actually the name is pronounced Yee Lei Sa Bak in HK and I think it
is ok too.)










h.way -

commomly we translate Elizabeth into 伊莉莎白，just the way we call the queen Elizabeth
yi 1 li4 sha1bai2
There are several pronunciation for 伯:bo2 bai3 ,when we overlapping it ,it sounds like
bai1bai(in a extremly softy voice,which we means 轻读）










madizi -

I see. Maybe I'm attached to explanation of one of my teacher at sinology who said that in
transliteration of foreign names the first pronunciation of character is used. But as it seems,
this isn't so.........










chenpv -



Quote:

There are more than one pronunciation for 伯 - bo2 and bai3 and ba4.

Add one more, 伯 is generally pronounced as bei2 in Shaanxi dialect. However when it comes in
pairs as 伯伯, the first character slightly changes into the third tone, thus reads bei2.5bei2.












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Chinese Online Class - Fake Languages -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Fake Languages
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imron -

Following a link about English experts from this post, I came across a Youtube video of a guy
speaking "fake" languages. Basically he recorded himself speaking a bunch of gibberish based on
how he perceived other languages to sound, with the hope that he could encourage non-native
English speakers to do the same back. Quite an interesting little experiment.



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Senzhi -

Actually, the "Sims" series of games produced by Electronic Arts uses also a "fake" gibberish
language. Feedback on those games is that players actually do understand what is being said due to
non-verbal communication as well as intonation.

Interesting indeed, if we consider the origin of languages. Somewhere somehow in history we all
must have started "barking" when we wanted something.

Now we just do it when we don't want something.










imron -

Another one of the same guy speaking with himself in fake german and fake arabic.










DrZero -

I think he's had some exposure to those languages ... or at least to samples for quite a while
online before doing this video. Him imitation of the Chinese sounds is so close.










imron -

Perhaps, but I think an important part of being able to do this is not being able to understand
the languages you're imitating, otherwise it becomes difficult to do.










aliah -

Maybe your right. Myriam. A little bit of new learning.










atitarev -

I watched "Minority Report" and was disgusted by fake Russian, which didn't sound like anything
Russian - the subtitle said "speaking in Russian", though, the Russians in the movie were also
disgusting like in many Hollywood movies. Otherwise the movie is not bad.

Sorry, Imron, I don't like fake languages, they don't sound well to the speakers of the real
languages, although it may take some skills and efforts. In the student years I was able to
imitate quite a few languages and other people could tell, which ones they were but I am not
enjoying this exercise any more - prefer the real thing










imron -

Just out of curiosity, do you think you'd still be able to do a fake English?










atitarev -

I think I can both Russian and English but I am a bit out of practice

Don't get me wrong - it's OK to do it socially but if, in some movies they show it as a real thing.

--
You can get not only fake speech but fake writing - like they show Russian army planes, rockets
with gibberish in Cyrillic.

I was amused and annoyed by the writings inside the Russian probe in "Red Planet".

It's not that hard to find a native speaker/translator for a multi-million movie, isn't it both
for speaking and writing.










Lu -



Quote:

I watched "Minority Report" and was disgusted by fake Russian, which didn't sound like anything
Russian - the subtitle said "speaking in Russian", though, the Russians in the movie were also
disgusting like in many Hollywood movies.

I recently saw a bit of Saving Private Ryan. There is a part when they get to a destroyed city,
and there's a family sitting in a building with the front broken off. Now, this entire story takes
place in France, as anyone with some knowledge of WOII history, let alone an ear for languages,
would know. But not the subtitler. Every time the family in the broken house said something, the
subtitles said (德文), and I was sitting there yelling at the tv: this isn't friggin' Dewen,
it's Fawen, can't you hear?! Where do you think they landed?! On a German beach?












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HSK Exam - 蠻 vs 滿 - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
蠻 vs 滿
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trien27 -

sozzen:
Simple: 滿 (Manchu) was regarded as 蠻 (barbarian). Manchus 滿 were a barbarian[non-Chinese]
tribe who controlled China[1644-1911]. 蠻 = braids used by Mongolian rulers or other tribes who
dress their hair in a similar fashion? Since it wasn't the traditional Chinese men's hairstyle,
it's considered barbaric. People probably got them confused with one another due to similarities
in pronunciation in Mandarin.



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skylee -



Quote:

蠻 = braids used by Mongolian rulers or other tribes who dress their hair in a similar fashion

Could you tell me the origin of this explanation. I am not sure if 蠻 has this meaning.

Or perhaps you have mixed it up with 辮?










CG wang -

I think we can use both the two words when we want to express " very". But in the other situation,
they are very different. 蠻 always means crude. and 滿 always means full.










mokushiroku -

I have a book that discusses common errors in character usage. This book also deals with the 蠻
vs 滿 enigma, and concludes in accordance with the information Skylee found: 满 is the correct
character to use for phrases like 她满可愛的. However, I still have a problem with this, and
hence registered this account:

If 满 truly is the correct character in this case, why does everyone (I live in Taiwan) seem to
pronounce it second tone and not third?










skylee -

Who is the author of that book?

I tend to agree with your observation (I live in HK but have watched a lot of Taiwan TV). I think
when people speak what they say or what is in their mind is actually 蠻. But because of the
dictionary explanation such as that in #3, when they write they turn it into 滿. hmm ...
精神分裂. 可憐嘞.

BTW, the quote in my #3 is from the 國語辭典 of the Taiwan Education Department. And it says
滿 is "more appropriate", not "correct".












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Chinese Character - Mandarin Regional Differences -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Mandarin Regional Differences
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Ari 桑 -

Can anyone point me to a source that explains regional differences in mandarin pronounciation?
I've been trying to find something along those lines, but so far I can only find comparisons on
dialects.

My reason being, I originally studied chinese in beijing, but decided I would rather use a
southern accent, from zhejiang, guangdong, or yunnan. When in those places, I can pick up on the
regional differences, but its hard to compile them in a concrete way, so I can make sure I'm
speaking rationally, and not just making things up.



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anonymoose -

Do you know of a source that explains regional differences in English pronounciation?

I think it's quite difficult to explain regional differences in pronunciation in any language,
save for the use of sound files, and even then it would take a lot of effort to compile the
neccessary comparative sound clips.

As for mandarin, very generally, southerners tend to pronounce sh as s, and zh as z as has been
discussed many times here before. I don't think you will find much else in a lot more detail than
this, but I'm happy if anyone can show otherwise.

Besides, why would you specifically want to talk in a southern accent? Unless your chinese accent
is very good (which it may be, but I don't know), you're still going to sound like a foreigner
regardless of whether you learnt your mandarin in Beijing or in the south, so I don't see the
point trying for a specific regional accent.










trien27 -

Mandarin is founded later than most of the other dialects: Cantonese, Fujianese/Foochow dialect,
Shanghainese, etc.... Most dialects have between 6-9 tones, yet Mandarin only has 4.

"As for mandarin, very generally, southerners tend to pronounce sh as s, and zh as z as has been
discussed many times here before. I don't think you will find much else in a lot more detail than
this, but I'm happy if anyone can show otherwise."

They did not intend to pronounce sh as s or zh as z. It is because the regional dialects don't
have an "sh or zh" sound, so the people approximate by using the sound closest to Mandarin in
their own dialect. Example: in Cantonese the word for "stone" is "sek", which is pronounced "shi"
in Mandarin. Occasionally, people would romanized it as "shek", yet still say "sek". Shi/Shek/Sek
that I have just mentioned is the Chinese word or the Chinese surname. But this is not always the
case: Zhen, one of the Chinese surnames, is "Yan/Yen" in Cantonese: Donnie Yen, martial arts/kung
fu fighter: for more information, click here: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0947447/. or Martin Yan,
the cook.

As anonymoose just posted "It's very hard to find a source". Besides there's too many dialects,
subdialects and sub-subdialects in Chinese. Finding a source that could properly distinguish all
these one by one, is very difficult. The reason if you read the history of the Chinese language is
that all dialect speakers are unintelligible to each other if you speak different dialects to each
other, unless the regions that they're from, are very close to each other. All dialects share a
common written language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language










Lu -

Generally speaking, southerners don't say the retroflexes (zh is z, sh is s, ch is c, and r- is
either y- or l-), and mix up -n and -ng endings. And of course they have no erhua.
In addition, some areas mix up l- and n-; and Hunan changes h- into f-, I think.

Please, do not pick up this accent. It's not considered standard Mandarin, not even by the
southerners themselves. If you want to speak less Beijingnese, throw out the erhua, but do keep
the distinction between s and sh and the others, and between -n and -ng. You'll be understood just
fine all over China.










Ari 桑 -

I have many friends from different parts of china, and many use relatively non-standard
pronounciation. Like anyone else, I learn the language by emulating those around me. Because some
of my closest friends come from the far south, I have gotten used to their accent, and accusomed
myself to saying things the same way. Because I have been using more and more of the southern
pronouciation of things, it is becoming more natural to me than standard mandarin. Most of my
prounouciation is an emulation of my friend from zhejiang.

However, I am making an effort to not go outside the bounds of what would be understood by all,
and so far I've never had a problem. For example, when saying 上, I say it more like shang, if
that makes sense. The "sh" sound is faint and not stressed, but still there, rather than "sang."
Same goes for "zhe" sounds.

Another distinct part of my friends accent is the "r" sound at the beginning of words. 然后 is
pronounced "lanhou" or "yanhou" (something between those two） and 人 is "l/yen" Would you
consider this deviation from the norm more extreme that the "sh" and "zhe" mutation?

This accent comes to me more naturally than standard madarin, and I can say things without much of
an accent easily, but saying 一点儿 etc sounds forced and american.










Jive Turkey -

Ari, it's completely up to you to sound however you want to sound, and IMO, many people who preach
that one should learn as standard a Mandarin as possible are often chasing a standard that they
aren't really immersed in or even exposed to. That is the nature of Putonghua. I personally chose
to learn what's considered standard for tones and the consonants and vowels, but gave less
attention to -erhua since that is something peculiar to northern speech. I learned in Taiwan, so I
quickly learned the correspondence between how locals pronounced certain things and what the
"standard" pronunciation was. I think that if you want to learn a Putonghua dialect, then you
should at least know what the "standard" form of whatever it is you hear in that variety of speech
is. In fact, if you ever want to use reference materials, you will have to know what the standard
pronuncation is.

IMO, learning what's considered "standard" is fine, but most of the people I've known who focused
on that had piss poor listening comprehension once they left the northeast. If a learner expects
to be able to use Putonghua to communicate with people from different areas, he needs to have at
least some exposure to dialect accents. Unfortunately, most mainland teachers and publishers think
that is heresy. I know of one series of books designed with the intent of helping CSL learners
understand "non-standard" Putonghua:
Varieties of spoken Standard Chinese. Dordrecht: Foris Publications, 1984.
I've seen two volumes in this series. I think the books have a full transcript of a long
conversation between a really standard speaker and a not so standard speaker, and a tape
recording. I think there are also exercises for matching up the pronunciation of certain dialect
influenced phonemes with their standard equivalents. One volume is on a speaker from Tianjin, the
other volume is on a speaker from Taipei. I think there are other volumes, but I've never seen
them.










Luobot -

I'm also interested in this subject, so I followed-up on Jive's post and found the following from
Amazon:

Vol 1 -- $102.28
Product Details
* Paperback
* Publisher: Foris Pubns USA (January 1983)
* Language: English
* ISBN-10: 907017667X
* ISBN-13: 978-9070176679
* Amazon.com Sales Rank: #4,603,959

Vol 2 -- $68.38
Product Details
* Paperback: 171 pages
* Publisher: Foris Publications USA (November 1984)
* Language: English, Cantonese
* ISBN-10: 9067650404
* ISBN-13: 978-9067650403
* Amazon.com Sales Rank: #5,573,486

The first one is presumably Mandarin. The second indicates it's Cantonese.

These seem to be a little expensive for just some paperbacks. It doesn't mention anything about
including a CD or even tape (not that I could play tape). Also, there are no reviews, which is not
a good sign.










cdn_in_bj -

I have wanted to post about a related topic for a while. For now, let me just say that here in
Beijing, one is exposed to a wide variety of mandarin pronounciations due to the large numbers
that have moved here from 外地 for school and/or work (and I'm not just referring to the migrant
workers). Ironically, I find the Beijing dialect and especially some of the 东北 pronounciations
to be the most challenging to understand for a non-native learner of mandarin. I have little
difficulty understanding most southern pronounciations.










atitarev -



Quote:

...IMO, learning what's considered "standard" is fine, but most of the people I've known who
focused on that had piss poor listening comprehension once they left the northeast. If a learner
expects to be able to use Putonghua to communicate with people from different areas, he needs to
have at least some exposure to dialect accents. Unfortunately, most mainland teachers and
publishers think that is heresy. ...

This is quite understandable, since teachers try to maintain the standard Mandarin. Non-standard
is different everywhere, which can be picked up if you go and stay in that area for a longer time.
It's probably more beneficial to learn that local dialect, not the local Mandarin accent.

Most local speakers understand the standard Mandarin very well, anyway.



Quote:

Can anyone point me to a source that explains regional differences in mandarin pronounciation?
I've been trying to find something along those lines, but so far I can only find comparisons on
dialects.

My reason being, I originally studied chinese in beijing, but decided I would rather use a
southern accent, from zhejiang, guangdong, or yunnan. When in those places, I can pick up on the
regional differences, but its hard to compile them in a concrete way, so I can make sure I'm
speaking rationally, and not just making things up.


Ari 桑, you are better of searching for specific dialects, there's plenty of info on Cantonese.
The other dialects have much less resources, especially written. If you ask a speaker of those
dialects, they (in many cases) will recommend you to learn Mandarin.










DrZero -

Just my two cents, something I've mentioned here before: If you plan to spend an extended period
of time in the south, it's advisable to drop the er-hua. The southerners find it annoying and kind
of pretentious. It's probably better to maintain the s/sh and z/zh distinctions rather than
speaking just like the southerners, but if you spend enough time with southerners you just may
find some of that distinctions fading away in your own speech.












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Free Chinese Lesson - Which books do Chinese use to learn Classical Chinese? - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Which books do Chinese use to learn Classical Chinese?
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atitarev -

"Brighter Readings in Classical Chinese" by Zhong Qin (钟梫), "Everyday Chinese" (每日汉语)
series. Like other Zhong Qin's books, it's out of print but still available.

It features - Chinese, Pinyin, detailed vocabulary and English translation.



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wangleen -

Have you found the book轻松学习文言文?It can be bought on www.dangdang.com
Actually, it was written by my father
And recently, he has published another book which you might find
useful:中国高中生必读文言文， following are the books he has written and can be bought
on dangdang:
http://search.dangdang.com/search.as...key5=&catalog=

Hope it can make your study much easier!










gato -



Quote:

Have you found the book轻松学习文言文?It can be bought on www.dangdang.com
Actually, it was written by my father

Wow, tell your dad that I love his book, and that you should write another one using the same
format, but with more classical Chinese essays that are not in textbooks. See here for some
examples:
http://search.dangdang.com/search.as...key5=&catalog=
高中课外文言文精讲精练
高中卷-课外文言文导读与精练
中考文言文课外阅读训练100篇

Or maybe a version of 《古文观止》 using the same format as 《轻松学习文言文》, but
that would be a huge project. Maybe you can work with your dad. Haha.










wangleen -

Thank you for your appraisal! Do you think it is necessary to have pingying for the words?










gato -

You can add pinyin just for the more obscure characters. Are you really thinking about it?










wushijiao -

Another book that I would recommend: Classical Chinese Primer: 古文入门 by John C.Y. Wang,
Sue-mei Wu, Shaoyu Jiang, Frank F.S. Hsueh. The Chinese University Press.
Advantages of this book:

1) Good selection of passages, as far as usefulness to the CSL learner, intrinsic content
interest, brevity, and accessibility.

2) Clear grammatical explanations. I find that this is important because I often feel that I'm 90%
sure of the meaning of a word/character or grammatical point. But that 10% unknown part can be
very crucial, and easily-overlooked.

3) The English in the book is very good (not Chinglish-y).

4) They use traditional characters. Although, the back of the book has an additional appendix with
all of the book's passages in simplified. So, if you are used to simplified, you can probably get
by using this book by just looking at the back.

5) The book design and presentation is pretty good.

6) You can buy a workbook that comes with it. I have found, so far, that I end up understanding
the passage/grammar much better after doing the relatively simple exercises that come along in the
workbook.

The main downside of the book is that it is fairly expensive at 240 HKD, with another 90 for the
workbook.

Another book that I bought (and will hopefully start and finish sometime next year) is
中國歷史文選 by 張衍田, 北京大學出版社. That book compiles selections from Chinese
history, with pretty interesting forwards to the passages and good annotations. The main advantage
of the book, compared to others on the Mainland, is that it is written in traditional characters
and is written vertically, from right to left. That doesn’t seem like much of a big deal,
really. But I read in the book’s introduction:
“北大歷史系1987年招收碩士研究生的古代漢語考題，有一題是要考生用繁體
字獻寫一段自選的百字古文，結果，沒有一個考生得滿分，有的考卷此題竟�
��一片空白”。That’s obviously an extreme example. However, if you ever want to read
authentic original documents, understand what inscriptions say in temples and museums, (or just
read books from HK and Taiwan), then it seems to me that is important to learn to read things the
way they were originally presented.

So, this is book should be good in the sense that it fulfills the above requirements and can be
bought in the Mainland.

http://product.dangdang.com/product....uct_id=8742591










calibre2001 -

Interesting thread here-> http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/ind...howtopic=16608


20th century classical chinese apparently.












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Chinese Class - 如果...的话 - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
如果...的话
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ChinsonTan -

如果"的话"不跟在"如果"后面的话那也还是"如果...的话",haha

In fact, "如果...的话"="如果"
you can use any of them when you mean " if " .



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Dani_man -

One day I was talking with a Chinese guy about Mandarin, he said something like
如果你学普通话的话...
In the middle of the sentence he realized that it would sound funny like that, but it was too
late... so his 的话 was in a kind of low voice, tried to dim it on the spot...

Just saying -
-It's very very much of 口语 to use it. They use it automatically.
-Sometimes you shouldn't t use it! (like in the example above )












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Learn Chinese - Translation of a plate -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Translation of a plate
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leah1 -

Hi,

I have a symbol on a plate and I don't have a clue what it means. Could someone please tell me if:
1- It is Chinese? If not any ideas
2- Does it mean anything?

Thank you very much for your help.

?



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ChineseSpeaker -

I am a native Chinese, but I can not recognise it.

I think it is a Chinese character, but since Chinese language has an history of serveral thousands
years, many character shape is radically different from its origin










roddy -

Looks like a poor attempt to copy or invent a Chinese character rather than anything I know.
Perhaps it's meant to be 丙? But I can't see why you'd have that on the bottom of a plate, and it
doesn't even look that much like it.










JimmySeal -

Looks like 取 to me. Dunno if it's a bad copy or an actual historical form.










HashiriKata -



Quote:

But I can't see why you'd have that on the bottom of a plate

Although I can't tell whether it's on the bottom of the plate but I can tell from the strokes of
the character that the character is an imitation by someone who is not very good at writing
characters (and who may not even know characters).










JimmySeal -

It appears to be the middle of the upper side of the plate, which some could call the bottom, not
to be confused with the underside. I didn't do an apprenticeship in pottery for nothin.










Tommi -

Perhaps it coukld be this: 朿










leah1 -

Hello,

Thanks you for your quick replies. The plate was made in England and painted in England and it is
very likely that the person who decorated it didn't know a word of Chinese or whatever language it
may be (very much like myself!!). The symbol is on the front of the plate so is obviously meant to
be seen and I guess mean something. Would somebody just invent a random symbol?? Any more ideas
and translations in English, even a guess, greatly apreciated. Thanks Leah










skylee -

I see 取.










roddy -

It's like a Rorschach test . . . what does everyone else see in the random cluster of strokes?












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Study Chinese - Downloadable dictionary file? - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > Adsotrans.com Forum
Downloadable dictionary file?
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wulong -

Here's a zipped CSV file that I extracted from the latest development database. Format is

simplified,traditional,pinyin,english

http://e.den.li/adso-csv.zip (2.3M)

Hope this helps.

PS. Here's the same data but in a single sqlite table:

http://e.den.li/adso.single.db.gz (6.8M)

Schema:


Code:

CREATE TABLE entries (
id INTEGER PRIMARY KEY AUTOINCREMENT,
simp TEXT UNIQUE,
trad TEXT UNIQUE,
pinyin TEXT UNIQUE,
english TEXT
);





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woliveri -

Thanks Wulong,

I have two problems.

1. Excel cannot open the entire and so I sucked it into Access and because the delimiters ( | )
don't seem to be consistant so I have pinyin together with characters in some rows and others are
ok.

2. The other file, single table with all data, appears not to be a valid archive.










trevelyan -

My laptop got tanked by a QQ install last week, which has stopped Adso-related work until I can
get it fixed. I'll take a look at those corrupted tables when I'm back up and running.

I don't see why you can't dump in CEDICT format if you want. Part of the point of the database
release is that it should be relatively simple to reformat data. The easiest way to access most of
the data is to look at the table ("expanded_unified"). The SQL command "SELECT * from
expanded_unified" will get you most of what you need.

The hard way of doing things is to look up the first character in the table character_index
("GB2312") or index_utf8s (simplified). The pkey in those tables corresponds to the table number
containing all entries beginning with that character. If a character is listed in the index with a
pkey of 84, for instance, all words starting with that character will be found in table _84.










woliveri -

Hi Trevelyan,

Thanks for the reply. It seems expanded_unified contains Chinese and Pinyin but no English.

This is the query:


Questions:
1. how do I get the English translation


Thanks,

Bill










wulong -



Quote:

1. Excel cannot open the entire and so I sucked it into Access and because the delimiters ( | )
don't seem to be consistant so I have pinyin together with characters in some rows and others are
ok.

That's a dump directly from sqlite. You might have to fixup a few rows to get it to work.



Quote:

2. The other file, single table with all data, appears not to be a valid archive.

It's a gzip file. You need to use WinZip or WinRAR if you're in Windows. If you're on Mac OS X, it
should be built in.



Quote:

I don't see why you can't dump in CEDICT format if you want. Part of the point of the database
release is that it should be relatively simple to reformat data. The easiest way to access most of
the data is to look at the table ("expanded_unified"). The SQL command "SELECT * from
expanded_unified" will get you most of what you need.

I don't even see expanded_unified. Can you point me to the archive that has the database with this
table?

What I need is a simple list (simplified, traditional, pinyin, english) similar to what cedict
gives. The database I have doesn't make it easy to do this which is why I had to resort to using
ruby in order to pull everything together.










woliveri -

wulong,


Yes, I have Winzip but it fails to open the archive saying it's corrupt or other error.

I'm using SQLite Maestro to view the tables (see the above graphic in my previous post), Seems
like a nice application but still cannot export to file without having memory errors or other
issues.

http://www.sqlmaestro.com/products/sqlite/maestro/










wulong -

@woliveri

Hmm... haven't used Windows in awhile, but I remember running into issues with winzip and plain
gzip files. Here's a zip file for you: http://e.den.li/adso.single.zip

Hopefully this one works better.

If you've installed sqlite3, you can get a dump file from the command line:


Code:

C:\path>sqlite adso.single.db
sqlite> .separator ,
sqlite> .output adso.csv
sqlite> select * from entries;
sqlite> .quit

There will be a new file called adso.csv in the same directory you started sqlite.










perjp -

Wulong, the schema for the sqlite database seems to be incorrect:



Code:

CREATE TABLE entries (
id INTEGER PRIMARY KEY AUTOINCREMENT,
simp TEXT UNIQUE,
trad TEXT UNIQUE,
pinyin TEXT UNIQUE,
english TEXT
);

The UNIQUE tags should not be there.
In the current table, there is only one entry with the pronounciation a1, which can't be correct.
The csv file has the same problem.

I've tried several times to access the download site http://www.adsotate.com/downloads/ but i've
never been successful. Is there any other way of accessing the raw data file?










trevelyan -

There will be a new release in a matter of days: database plus software plus several months of
updates. In the meantime, an older version is still online at:

http://www.adsotrans.com/downloads/

The adsotate.com server had technical problems and is offline..










ABCinChina -

First of all, I would like to thank Trevelyan for putting together such a useful dictionary which
help me in reading online text as well as my work translations.

Is it just me, or is the current database down? I need to create a PHP script that connects to the
database and reformats the data to the format I need. I've downloaded sqlite3 & sqlite maestro and
need some tips on how to get them to dump in the needed format since I can't seem to access this
script. http://adsotrans.com/downloads/v5/php_script.txt Can somebody please give me some pointers?

Here's what I'm trying to do. Ideally, I would like to import the full Traditional and Simplified
database into Kingsoft Powerword 2007 which accepts .txt files in ANSI format that looks like the
example below.

乾淨|[gan1 jing4]\r\nclean\r\ntidy\r\nneat\r\n <--format

Ends up looking like this...
乾淨 <-- lookup word
[gan1 jing4] <-- pinyin & definitions
clean
tidy
neat












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